converging odor search
Saturday, September 28, 2013
Saturday, September 21, 2013
Tuesday, June 4, 2013
Grafton 5/31/13
Rock Wall Grafton was really distracted by Harley's yelping. I'd like to try in future practices getting him out and just giving him a minute or two to adapt to the environment before he starts his search. It might help him to be more focused during the search. Don't let me forget to do this. The nice part was that you let him look and then when you redirected him back to the search - he went directly to a hide. Overall these more challenging environments will have him overprepared for most trial environments. Do note how his tail just keeps wagging and wagging the whole time you are talking to him while rewarding him - he likes rewards, but he loves having his Mum tell him how he's a good boy. I liked at the 2:30 minute place where you fed him from the source that he was looking at, and then he decided he was brave enough to put his feet up there. I am soooo going to get some chalk before we do something like this again.
Trailers I was shocked to see this search went on for about 10 minutes! I am really surprised that he was willing to persist that long. Do note about 2:07 how you pulled him off odor... he was headed toward the hide on the "bumper" and you stopped him, probably because you could see the hide on top of the tire. Good job encouraging him to get his feet up on the tire. Do keep in mind, that these are pretty acceptable times. He'd found three hides in under three minutes... so that is good enough to get him through NW2... and since our practice hides don't have time to cook - they are actually harder than what he'd see at a trial. I did notice that his tail wasn't going as still when he'd find odor as it has in the past. So we'll have to watch that - it may be as he gains in confidence, that particular tell may change or disappear. We'll have to work at least one higher hide for each of these boys each time we get together... just to give them confidence to get their feet up on things. If you watch on the video... that leftmost hide on the third trailer - Grafton looks up right where it is a couple of times. It almost looked like he knew where it was, but didn't know what to do it about it and the trip taking you under the trailer was just his way of trying to solve the problem. You could also teach him to stand up on his back legs as a trick, to give him confidence. This is actually giving me an idea for an exercise.... hmmmmm... I really like the way he worked out the source on the hide at the tires on the second trailer. I do notice you doing a lot of "looking" to see where the hides are - and I think this is messing with your handling. We need to decide in advance if these are blind or not and if not - remind me to show you where each one is. If they are blind - no looking, you won't get any advantage in a trial so there is no point in doing that now. I don't know what happened that we lost the end of this tape...
Containers Just as a reminder - the bag after the box you called alert on was the one with odor and he left it. The large-long dark bag right next to the curb was also odor. You'll note how he looked expectantly at you when you called "alert"... so its becoming a reward marker for him, just as happened with Gimme. That's why I now call out "bell", "book" and "candle" in classes and change it up each week. The first actual alert on containers, his tail did go still. The third time he went to the other odor bag, he walked up to it and stopped, looking at you. We totally have to work on his alert. Granted this challenge is beyond what he needs for NW1... but he should be developing a more reliable alert by now. These "look at handler" alerts aren't clear enough for man or beast. That's my opine and I'm stickin' with it.
Trailers I was shocked to see this search went on for about 10 minutes! I am really surprised that he was willing to persist that long. Do note about 2:07 how you pulled him off odor... he was headed toward the hide on the "bumper" and you stopped him, probably because you could see the hide on top of the tire. Good job encouraging him to get his feet up on the tire. Do keep in mind, that these are pretty acceptable times. He'd found three hides in under three minutes... so that is good enough to get him through NW2... and since our practice hides don't have time to cook - they are actually harder than what he'd see at a trial. I did notice that his tail wasn't going as still when he'd find odor as it has in the past. So we'll have to watch that - it may be as he gains in confidence, that particular tell may change or disappear. We'll have to work at least one higher hide for each of these boys each time we get together... just to give them confidence to get their feet up on things. If you watch on the video... that leftmost hide on the third trailer - Grafton looks up right where it is a couple of times. It almost looked like he knew where it was, but didn't know what to do it about it and the trip taking you under the trailer was just his way of trying to solve the problem. You could also teach him to stand up on his back legs as a trick, to give him confidence. This is actually giving me an idea for an exercise.... hmmmmm... I really like the way he worked out the source on the hide at the tires on the second trailer. I do notice you doing a lot of "looking" to see where the hides are - and I think this is messing with your handling. We need to decide in advance if these are blind or not and if not - remind me to show you where each one is. If they are blind - no looking, you won't get any advantage in a trial so there is no point in doing that now. I don't know what happened that we lost the end of this tape...
Containers Just as a reminder - the bag after the box you called alert on was the one with odor and he left it. The large-long dark bag right next to the curb was also odor. You'll note how he looked expectantly at you when you called "alert"... so its becoming a reward marker for him, just as happened with Gimme. That's why I now call out "bell", "book" and "candle" in classes and change it up each week. The first actual alert on containers, his tail did go still. The third time he went to the other odor bag, he walked up to it and stopped, looking at you. We totally have to work on his alert. Granted this challenge is beyond what he needs for NW1... but he should be developing a more reliable alert by now. These "look at handler" alerts aren't clear enough for man or beast. That's my opine and I'm stickin' with it.
Tucker & Grafton 5/31/13
First off, an apology. I think I set up challenges that were too hard for the boys. I realized later that I set them up more because I wanted to do them with Gimme.
Don't get me wrong... I'm sure no harm was done and I'm equally sure the boys learned from the experience, which in itself is a good thing. But it was, I think, too much of a good thing to do both the wall and the trailers on the same day. And it would probably have been better to do less than eight hides on each.
Soooo for the next few weeks, I want to back down to simpler stuff to keep the motivation high and to focus on containers for the boys. With maybe one exterior hide to go along with it. Next time we get together, we'll all bring boxes and set up a blind ORT for Mary & Grafton.
Don't get me wrong... I'm sure no harm was done and I'm equally sure the boys learned from the experience, which in itself is a good thing. But it was, I think, too much of a good thing to do both the wall and the trailers on the same day. And it would probably have been better to do less than eight hides on each.
Soooo for the next few weeks, I want to back down to simpler stuff to keep the motivation high and to focus on containers for the boys. With maybe one exterior hide to go along with it. Next time we get together, we'll all bring boxes and set up a blind ORT for Mary & Grafton.
Sunday, May 19, 2013
Tucker 5/19/13
This first video I've put together clips of Tucker searching... as a comparison for what level of speed/enthusiasm we had to start and what we have later. The first two are before we make any changes... then we play with how we deliver treats and the next two are a little improved.
Exterior search - Good search. Not sure what you saw as an indication for the first hide, but 1:15 was good time, especially since he'd already covered some of the other area. 1:17 to the second hide, also good time. Actual time between the second hide and the last was 21 seconds... so he clearly had a good idea where it was and it was just down to the detailing. Overall a really nice search in 2:50...
The first few tries of this routine... it takes us a bit to get you in the rhythm of what I wanted. We started with three bags. 1 and 2 were food, 3 was odor. If you compare this to his first couple of runs of the day - the speed/enthusiasm is up quite a bit.
Clearly I have to learn to give better instructions. Even so, note Tucker had you moving at a trot at the beginning of this segment.
This time we got the rhythm and instructions right and he paid hardly any attention to the food distractions and was fast going right to odor. Note, you are no longer having to pull him past food... very nice...
This clip is where we started to mix it up a bit. We had three food distraction bags, followed by one blank and the last was odor. It was clear that he was "getting it" and realizing that there was no point to stop for food and even that fast he knew the blank wasn't worth checking. Nice enthusiasm.
This was the best. We pulled the switcheroo on him so now the order was three food distractions, odor and blank. He was clearly moving by the food distractions and headed for odor. Of course, he was cheating and going to the last bag due to pattern training, but that's fine. It means he was determined to get to odor because that's where the fun and pay is - bypassing food along the way. Yayyyy Tucker! Yes, he did pass the odor bag, but when he got to the end of the line he did not try to convince you the blank bag was it... and turned to find odor.
Exterior search - Good search. Not sure what you saw as an indication for the first hide, but 1:15 was good time, especially since he'd already covered some of the other area. 1:17 to the second hide, also good time. Actual time between the second hide and the last was 21 seconds... so he clearly had a good idea where it was and it was just down to the detailing. Overall a really nice search in 2:50...
Thursday, May 16, 2013
Grafton 5/16/13
Here's the ones we got tonight... I recommend watching these videos over and over and over again. When
you see the behavior enough times on video - in time you'll be able to
see it in real time, as its happening.
You'll notice he gets pretty close to an anise hide very quickly in the search, but if he knew it was there, I didn't see it. Keep in mind that for this area, the breeze is blowing from your right as you started the search. He got the first one at about 1:20 and had to indicate it twice before you reacted. His tail definitely wags to the happy talk. After the first hide, he looks like he wants to go down to where the hide nearest the nursery doors is, but you don't go with him, so he doesn't pursue it. I think when he went back to where the first hide he found was for the third time (after you'd picked up the tin) he was catching a breeze from the other one - you'll see then he does go down that way and catches it with a nice change of behavior at about 2:50+. You'll notice your search never takes him into the space where he would have caught odor for the last hide.
When you stayed in the area, he did finally catch some of it drifting up to his nose and follows it to source. Then when we do it again focusing on getting into that area where the air moving to... he does catch it, but not until he gets his nose down... even though he'd been through there twice but both times with his head up. Because of where the odor was, unless the dogs stopped right on top of it, it needed to fall and they both found it from underneath.
Right after the first hide he finds, he starts toward the one on the left end (:35) but you don't go with him backing away from the pallets... note he even looks back in that direction (:38), but then YOU move him the other way and like a gentleman he accommodates you. You'll notice he sniffs low toward where the next hide is (:50) and then you move around him and start to the back of the pallets. When I tell you they are on the front and you come back, he goes right to that hide within 2 seconds (1:09). He knew it was there, but politely followed you. Watch his nose a little more and if he stops in one spot sniffing for a second or two... then honor where he is at with some moving around him. He practically stood on his head before you called it... After you hand me the tin, he goes back to where it was and then looks at you - as if to question whether he'll be allowed to go to where the other one is - watch it (1:45). He had his nose right on it (1:56), but you didn't catch it. So it takes another 20 seconds before he goes back to it.
This is one thing I totally disagree with NACSW and their approach - the whole business about not encouraging the dogs to develop an alert early on. When the dog has to rely on us to read them... too much of the time they are not being supported and I believe that undermines confidence. But, when a dog has a way to indicate where it is and basically demand that you pay attention to what they are showing you - I think that builds confidence. NACSW thinks if the dog has an indicator early, we handlers will never learn to read them... I haven't found that to be the case and Gimme had a very early indicator. We really need to push the nose touch game with Grafton so he can demand that you pay him over and over and over again. At some point he'll realize that he can initiate and then you'll have a valid indicator that will put control in his paws.
BTW another thought... you might want to get him a totally separate harness for nosework. Afterall... what has he been learning in THAT harness for all his other walks - don't pull, walk politely beside Mom. What are you getting in nosework? No pulling and he follows you even before you take a step in a direction - he turns with you when you shift your weight. I would try a harness with a Y-front that is more comfortable for leaning into and pulling and only use it for nosework and tracking, saving this harness for walking.
His body language is verrrrry clear in this video, as is his politely following you in a shed that he KNOWS has no odor in it. He could carry a sign... Notice how long it is between when his head first goes down to odor at the first hide and when you "woohoo" for it. From 0:24.68 to 0:29.50 - a full five seconds from when he starts detailing until when he convinces you. We can tighten that up when he knows a way to demand payment. You just had to take him in the white shed (he's so patient - he even politely sniffs around the door frame so you will feel he's honored your request even though I'm 100% sure he knew there wasn't any odor there). Note how quickly he steps in the yellow shed and basically goes right to the odor. No interest in the blue shed - though he was willing if you needed to go in there. He started past the green one and there was a very decided change of behavior when he caught the odor and then went straight to it.
You'll notice he gets pretty close to an anise hide very quickly in the search, but if he knew it was there, I didn't see it. Keep in mind that for this area, the breeze is blowing from your right as you started the search. He got the first one at about 1:20 and had to indicate it twice before you reacted. His tail definitely wags to the happy talk. After the first hide, he looks like he wants to go down to where the hide nearest the nursery doors is, but you don't go with him, so he doesn't pursue it. I think when he went back to where the first hide he found was for the third time (after you'd picked up the tin) he was catching a breeze from the other one - you'll see then he does go down that way and catches it with a nice change of behavior at about 2:50+. You'll notice your search never takes him into the space where he would have caught odor for the last hide.
When you stayed in the area, he did finally catch some of it drifting up to his nose and follows it to source. Then when we do it again focusing on getting into that area where the air moving to... he does catch it, but not until he gets his nose down... even though he'd been through there twice but both times with his head up. Because of where the odor was, unless the dogs stopped right on top of it, it needed to fall and they both found it from underneath.
Right after the first hide he finds, he starts toward the one on the left end (:35) but you don't go with him backing away from the pallets... note he even looks back in that direction (:38), but then YOU move him the other way and like a gentleman he accommodates you. You'll notice he sniffs low toward where the next hide is (:50) and then you move around him and start to the back of the pallets. When I tell you they are on the front and you come back, he goes right to that hide within 2 seconds (1:09). He knew it was there, but politely followed you. Watch his nose a little more and if he stops in one spot sniffing for a second or two... then honor where he is at with some moving around him. He practically stood on his head before you called it... After you hand me the tin, he goes back to where it was and then looks at you - as if to question whether he'll be allowed to go to where the other one is - watch it (1:45). He had his nose right on it (1:56), but you didn't catch it. So it takes another 20 seconds before he goes back to it.
This is one thing I totally disagree with NACSW and their approach - the whole business about not encouraging the dogs to develop an alert early on. When the dog has to rely on us to read them... too much of the time they are not being supported and I believe that undermines confidence. But, when a dog has a way to indicate where it is and basically demand that you pay attention to what they are showing you - I think that builds confidence. NACSW thinks if the dog has an indicator early, we handlers will never learn to read them... I haven't found that to be the case and Gimme had a very early indicator. We really need to push the nose touch game with Grafton so he can demand that you pay him over and over and over again. At some point he'll realize that he can initiate and then you'll have a valid indicator that will put control in his paws.
BTW another thought... you might want to get him a totally separate harness for nosework. Afterall... what has he been learning in THAT harness for all his other walks - don't pull, walk politely beside Mom. What are you getting in nosework? No pulling and he follows you even before you take a step in a direction - he turns with you when you shift your weight. I would try a harness with a Y-front that is more comfortable for leaning into and pulling and only use it for nosework and tracking, saving this harness for walking.
His body language is verrrrry clear in this video, as is his politely following you in a shed that he KNOWS has no odor in it. He could carry a sign... Notice how long it is between when his head first goes down to odor at the first hide and when you "woohoo" for it. From 0:24.68 to 0:29.50 - a full five seconds from when he starts detailing until when he convinces you. We can tighten that up when he knows a way to demand payment. You just had to take him in the white shed (he's so patient - he even politely sniffs around the door frame so you will feel he's honored your request even though I'm 100% sure he knew there wasn't any odor there). Note how quickly he steps in the yellow shed and basically goes right to the odor. No interest in the blue shed - though he was willing if you needed to go in there. He started past the green one and there was a very decided change of behavior when he caught the odor and then went straight to it.
The worst thing about the sod hide was how tight it was, making it hard for us to move around without bothering/interfering with the dogs. He first puts his nose right up next to where the odor is at 1:38. Again at 1:42 and holding for several seconds. Again at 1:56, looks at you and wags, which is when I commented. When you hold the treat near it, so he has to point at it to get the treat - he's on it within a second - for the fourth time. I think playing that game in many situations with every hide will go a long way toward giving him a tool to demand that you pay up.
I'm dubbing that game Nosework Zen... its like Doggie Zen in that "you have to give it up to get it grasshopper". IE the dog has to leave the treats and show where the odor is to get the treats.
BTW I noticed watching these that his tail wags every time you say "good boy". I think playing with the paper bags could be a good way to ramp up his enthusiasm, which will lead to more success and thence to confidence.
Saturday, May 11, 2013
Grafton 5/10/13
Here's the clips of Grafton's searches...
Clearly he was distracted by the intensity of the dog smell there. No big surprise, since we know he's environmentally sensitive. There's a difference I'm sure between casual passing dog smells and been-there-all-day smells. It seemed to work well to tap the wall and distract him from the sniff-fest.
Still distracted, but faster... We need to explore ways to get him to off the environmental sniffing and back to work. Kissy noises, thigh slaps (yours), gentle touch to him (stroke him on the hips)...
This one is faster still... He tends to stall when you aren't moving... we'll see a difference when you move in with him and keep moving.
I saw him come in the room and then go back where you were and then he just stopped and stood with you - trying to be a good boy. He is sensitive enough that he may always need supportive movement.
Again I see him standing and waiting for you to do something... its like he thought you were not ready. When you recued him... he dropped his nose right on it - so he already had to have known it was there. I'm pondering whether he takes that first cue seriously without you moving - maybe he thinks the cue is two part... verbal and your movement...
I don't think I'd move his butt manually - it was subtle and hard to see on the camera, but it looked to me like he wasn't "comfortable" with it. Not afraid or anxious... just kinda not understanding why/what. Instead move in a circle, keeping him on the outside to get him facing in. I don't think it affected his searching and he did well... its just something I generally see dogs not "liking", so I almost always recommend against it. BTW you moved in on your own this time and it seemed to work well... the tight spacing made it hard/impossible to keep moving though.
Watch him and you can see he's looking down at where the odor is before he even crossed the threshold. Nice job! Hardly worth pushing the record button for...
I'm curious what you were waiting for. You held him at the start line for about 25 seconds before giving him the cue. BTW I have to read the rules, but I don't think we can touch the environment in a trial - i.e. no tapping on the wall... Yes, we do it in training, but I think you'll need another strategy to redirect his attention. Still I'm not sure redirecting is the issue here... I think he was just stalling and waiting for you. We need to try some of the things I mentioned above and see how they work. I once watched a woman work with her dog and, while she totally over-managed her dog's searching, her way of directing him was to move her hand as if she was flinging some treats where she wanted him to check... So that's another option.
I'd swear he remembered where it was... or had caught a drift of it as you moved out the door to turn around for the start. He didn't wait for you to move in.
I'm sure he knew where this one was. He didn't even look at it before dropping his nose to it...
And now, the dreaded containers...
You are fortunate that he's not as drawn by food distractions as Gimme and Tucker. He notices them, but doesn't fixate.
Most of the time when he's on distraction, his tail stops and then he starts to wag it on his own (as opposed to the way it moves when he's relaxed). But this isn't a constant. In this search, he wasn't really indicating the odor - since we knew where it was, it was clear when he knew where it was. But he's too willing to leave it... like what I said about Tucker... I think we have to find a way to make odor so valuable because of the reward he gets, that he's unwilling to leave it. This may take some experimentation. We might want to try/use some of the same things we talked about for recalls... making it a big exciting deal until he's wondering why you are so crazy and how to make it happen again.
Did you see how absolutely he ignored the blank bag? Not even wasting a second sniff in its direction. I do think the key for him (and probably for Tucker) is to keep them moving and not let them have the self-rewarding pleasure of sniffing distractions.
We can also play with treat delivery for both of these guys. For instance... for many dogs "getting a gobble" is more exciting than being handed a treat or multiple treats. I used to do a thing with Michael where, while I always had treats when we were practicing agility, when he did an especially good job... I'd say with great excitement, "WOO HOOOOOO!!!" and dash over to where I had the good stuff - a paperbag full of popcorn. It wasn't the popcorn that was important as I often had popcorn in the bag around my waist... it was the fact that he got to stick his head in the paper bag and gobble all he wanted.
Clearly he was distracted by the intensity of the dog smell there. No big surprise, since we know he's environmentally sensitive. There's a difference I'm sure between casual passing dog smells and been-there-all-day smells. It seemed to work well to tap the wall and distract him from the sniff-fest.
Still distracted, but faster... We need to explore ways to get him to off the environmental sniffing and back to work. Kissy noises, thigh slaps (yours), gentle touch to him (stroke him on the hips)...
This one is faster still... He tends to stall when you aren't moving... we'll see a difference when you move in with him and keep moving.
I saw him come in the room and then go back where you were and then he just stopped and stood with you - trying to be a good boy. He is sensitive enough that he may always need supportive movement.
I don't think I'd move his butt manually - it was subtle and hard to see on the camera, but it looked to me like he wasn't "comfortable" with it. Not afraid or anxious... just kinda not understanding why/what. Instead move in a circle, keeping him on the outside to get him facing in. I don't think it affected his searching and he did well... its just something I generally see dogs not "liking", so I almost always recommend against it. BTW you moved in on your own this time and it seemed to work well... the tight spacing made it hard/impossible to keep moving though.
I'd swear he remembered where it was... or had caught a drift of it as you moved out the door to turn around for the start. He didn't wait for you to move in.
I'm sure he knew where this one was. He didn't even look at it before dropping his nose to it...
And now, the dreaded containers...
We can also play with treat delivery for both of these guys. For instance... for many dogs "getting a gobble" is more exciting than being handed a treat or multiple treats. I used to do a thing with Michael where, while I always had treats when we were practicing agility, when he did an especially good job... I'd say with great excitement, "WOO HOOOOOO!!!" and dash over to where I had the good stuff - a paperbag full of popcorn. It wasn't the popcorn that was important as I often had popcorn in the bag around my waist... it was the fact that he got to stick his head in the paper bag and gobble all he wanted.
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